The ATF is not allowed to come to your home and ask to inspect your silencers, your SBRs, SBSs, MGs, DDs, AOWs, etc etc. What I am saying is that if law enforcement people show up at your door and ask you something, you should be polite and try to comply if what they ask seems reasonable to you. The best way to do this is to use software like FastBound for your Acquisition and Disposition records and to have a legal team like FFLGuard in place. ... ATFE is law enforcement, aren't we in favour of that? You are much more likely to get a subpoena to appear somewhere than you are to get a visit. The list goes on and on. Can the ATF really come in your house at will? You can't loan it to anyone. If you have a large staff then it’s easy for 3310s to not get filled out and filed. For all we know, the questioner has had his guns stolen without knowing it, and the agents are there to restore them to him! Next your 4473s will be reviewed. They'll send a letter with a deadline for a response. Neither would any of the other agencies that regulate other stuff (like EPA, IRS, FDA, CPSC). If the BATFE decided to go after pistol braces on a large scale like I suspect they want to, they'd turn millions of people into criminals. Unless you are an FFL/07 or you want ATF to come to your house and shoot your dog. The time has come to abolish the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Sentry Strap: A Must-Have for Your Fighting Rifle. Still, the process follows a fairly predictable process, which we highlight below. Just having those items is not probable cause for anything. Dealer. These comments stem from the belief that NFA ownership means the ATF is legally allowed to stop by and enter your home at any random time for a no-warrant-or-notification-needed “NFA inspection,” and that you’re obligated to comply. If you want a hassle-free way to help you keep your bound books compliant, then give FastBound a try today. If you have been cited, it’s important to fix these errors in your inventory and processes as soon as possible. These forms are very easy to fill out, but for that reason the process gets rushed and there are unintentional errors. These processes should include routine inventory audits, paperwork audits, process audits, and you should stay current with the ever changing laws and regulations of the firearms industry. And by the way, ATF, alcohol, tobacco and firearms, well, the ATF has been doing a lot of the “A” and the “T,” but not much of the “F.” And we need to fix that. If you’re in the firearms business, then you will get audited at some point. In 1981, he joined the Branch Davidians, a sect of the Seventh Day Adventist Church founded in 1934 by a Bulgarian immigrant named Victor Houteff. A lot of the innocent people killed by the ATF were American citizens meaning no harm. When the ATF knocks at your door it can be quite nerve-wracking. Typically, if you have a clean record the process will run much more smoothly, than if you have a stack of infractions. Reason 2: Investigating the Purchase of Multiple Firearms Under the 1968 Gun Control Act , FFLs are required to report multiple sales of handguns to the same purchaser. The audit process will vary depending on if it’s your very first audit, or if you’ve received any infractions in the past. However, this is easier said than done. “NSSF has reached out to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), Members of Congress and The White House to seek clarity on … As an fyi, for >99% of you, the ATF wouldn't come to your door if they were interested. Both the Swift link and coat hanger machine gun DIAS are considered machine guns. One of the biggest fears of gun owners since this election cycle began has been that the right to keep and bear arms would come under renewed attack as soon as a Democrat moved into the White House. Some say nothing will happen, some say it won't happen but it could, and some say the ATF is going to check your colon. The best way to avoid any negative outcomes from an audit is to have the proper processes in place to ensure you’re following the law before you’re audited. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. Is there any way to find out why they were there? And you absolutely do control your consent. One day, I open up my front door and I find an ATF card from a special agent. We show you how you can better prepare and make it through. IMHO that question assumes a presumption of guilt and I wonder what Kassar would say about that. Neither would any of the other agencies that regulate other stuff (like EPA, IRS, FDA, CPSC). Investigating the Purchase of Multiple Firearms. The ATF actually came to my home some years ago, in response to an issue that (thankfully) turned out to be a paperwork mess-up on their end. Don't consent to ANYTHING. On the 14th of November I got a call from an ATF special agent, let’s call him John, who asked if he could come by and have a quick conversation with me. Especially, if you’ve already done the proper groundwork. 4 0 0. Discussion in 'NFA & Class III Discussion' started by Cadesdad, Jan 20, 2011. Below we’ll walk you through the audit process, so you know what to expect, and offer a few suggestions if it’s already too late and you don’t have time to prepare for an audit. You need written permission to take it out of state. The goal of this is to make sure your records have been kept in a timely manner. What bothered me was when the male ATF agent asked him what motivated him to decide to sell a firearm. The BATF&E can legally come to your house at anytime and demand that you produce the registered item so that they may be sure you have not disposed of it. Get your house turned inside out for a $500 plastic gun or $129 lower? Why? Thanks. A “Class 3″ license is a dealer license – and the ATF absolutely can show up to search a dealer’s premises; but, silencer buyers don’t give up any rights at all. Jan 9, 2019 #16/22 What I did was restate the law. It's not signing your rights away so stop acting like it. Rating - 100%. The FBI, ATF, and DEA are some of the agencies that would have the authority to search your home. The ATF has gone in and gotten the wrong guy in the wrong place. I was at my shop at the time overseeing a construction project and told him that I was busy and would be unable to meet that day. The agents might have been told (by one of the questioner's enemies, for example) that the questioner has sold the guns unlawfully, and they are verifying that isn't true. I was talking about a situation in which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes smashing into a house, doesn't say who they are, and their guns are out, they're shooting, and they're in the wrong place. Filling out the form 1 or form 4 is paying a tax. The ATF also regulates, via licensing, the sale, possession, and transportation of firearms, ammunition, and explosives in interstate commerce. They might be on some general task, remember the Richmond gun show thing? You are much more likely to get a subpoena to appear somewhere than you are to get a visit. There is no such thing as the ATF coming to your house to inspect your registered NFA items. I don’t believe this is true in South Carolina, and regardless, the police must still show probable cause. Unless you are an FFL/07 or you want ATF to come to your house and shoot your … Posted: Thu May 07, Post subject: ATF Knocking at your door...Yes I just received this email from a friend. The FBI, ATF, and DEA are some of the agencies that would have the authority to search your home. After all of your documents have been reviewed and checked against your firearms inventory, there will be a closing conference where you’ll be informed of any violations that might have occurred. There is one guy named Prince, IIRC. Just let them in, if you decline or tell them you are going to call a lawyer they will think something is up. You need written permission to take it out of state. In a part of Utah that resembles Tattooine. When the ATF knocks at your door it can be quite nerve-wracking. For example, the ATFE agents say they want to see the three ARs you bought last month at the gun show, to make sure you're not reselling. I was talking about a situation in which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes smashing into a house, doesn't say who they are, and their guns are out, they're shooting, and they're in the wrong place. Last night there were police cars at their house. In an effort to be consistent and to provide individuals with the most up-to-date information, ATF has compiled a list of the most frequently asked questions and provided answers to those questions (Q&As). When the ATF shows up at your door, it’s only natural to get a little nervous. The list of "can'ts" is long. Knowing what to expect can help to ease any anxieties during your audit. They have repeatedly proven that they do not uphold their oath to the Constitution. Both the Swift link and coat hanger machine gun DIAS are considered machine guns. Because this is important stuff, regardless of what your thoughts may be on the item in question. Using software like FastBound will help you keep your records accurate and compliant, and having the power of a legal team like FFLGuard behind you will help keep you up with the latest legal standards. Don't talk without a lawyer present. If you can’t see the front of the house, look out a back window. Filling out the form 1 or form 4 is paying a tax. The White House is investigating the ATF’s decision to increase regulation on Q, LLC’s (Q) Honey Badger Pistol, and the agency is warning that other AR-15 pistols may be targeted as well. The ATF is not allowed to come to your home and ask to inspect your silencers, your SBRs, SBSs, MGs, DDs, AOWs, etc etc. They might, unknown to the buyer or the seller, be stolen guns- refusal to show them to law enforcement could look like consciousness of guilt. Reply. The idea that you should never even talk to a LEO without an attorney is not only stupid, it can help a criminal. If you have been cited following an audit, then do your best to fix any errors as soon as possible. Joined Apr 12, 2006 Messages 11,521 Likes 15,826 Location Eastern Mass and southern NH. DO NOT DO THIS IN YOUR HOME. If the agent says "I want to look at Colt AR SN XXX", and you say "Sure, I'll get it for you, wait right here", there isn't any case law I've ever seen that gives the agent any authority to do anything more than wait on the porch, unless you consent to more. My lawyer's been a lawyer just about as long as you have, was a prosecutor and says EXACTLY the opposite. Another REALLY good reason to have a free standing shop is IF you get your FFL for a home based business, then the ATF can inspect your ENTIRE home when they come for an inspection. To prevent this from happening, it’s helpful to have employees ask customers if they’ve previously purchased any firearms, before completing a purchase. Your lawyer is clueless, or angling for a fee. The goal isn’t to never experience an audit, but instead to have everything in order, so an audit doesn’t derail your business. Discussion in 'Legal' started by Extremely Pro Gun, Sep 29, 2009. This will help to catch any additional typos you might have overlooked. The ATF cannot knock on your door and demand to inspect your home just because you own a NFA firearm. I am not being nosey- Police cars in our neighborhood are very unusual, and I really want to know if I should worry about my family. As an fyi, for >99% of you, the ATF wouldn't come to your door if they were interested. What I did was restate the law. All of which may severely damage your business. If there are any discrepancies in your inventory and your Acquisition and Disposition logs, then those will be inspected further. Your disposition records must also match any firearms you’ve sold, or that have been disposed of, or stolen. I have had some people argue that mere knowledge you own a NFA firearm will make the police more likely to search you or your house. The ATF has gone in and gotten the wrong guy in the wrong place. I also read the the ATF warrant they showed up with was only looking for information from January 2019 to June 4, 2020. The best way to ensure you’re fully prepared for an audit is to ensure your books and processes are always 100% compliant. Florida, bouncing between Hurlburt Fld and MacDill. Smart officers on perimeter control duties will try as hard as possible to stay out of the view of the house. NES Member. This has happened time and time again. When the ATF shows up at your door, it’s only natural to get a little nervous. Sentry Strap: A Must-Have for Your Fighting Rifle. They'll send a letter with a deadline for a response. There won't be a dammed thing you can do about it. Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. and tell them there's a man with a gun outside of your house and that your scared What bothered me was when the male ATF agent asked him what motivated him to decide to sell a firearm. Home invaders generally don’t cover the back of the house. Unless you are an FFL/07 or you want ATF to come to your house and shoot your … “NSSF has reached out to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), Members of Congress and The White House to seek clarity on … They might be checking up on the dealer, to see if the serial numbers he said he sold you are the ones you actually bought. You can't loan it to anyone. If the atf show up at your door....tell them to suck a dick and come back with a warrant....it's really not that hard. The BATF&E can legally come to your house at anytime and demand that you produce the registered item so that they may be sure you have not disposed of it. We live in a quiet, safe suburban neighborhood. With a few exceptions (fresh pursuit, consent, imminent destruction of evidence, a threat to public safety) police need a warrant to enter your house. Their numerous failed operations have ended up with weapons in the hands of Cartel members leading to innocent people killed. you can't send it to get it worked on. Why citizens wanting to know what the rules are even had to ask – and why that was being evaded – only becomes clear when you come to grips with the obvious: ATF … Your books need to have a 100% match with your inventory. It would also be prudent to separately document your experience of the encounter in writing – such as the location, date, and time of your interaction with the ATF agent(s), the names or other identifying information (ID #, contact number, business card, etc.) ATF's responsibilities include the investigation and prevention of federal offenses involving the unlawful use, manufacture, and possession of firearms and explosives; acts of arson and bombings; and illegal trafficking of alcohol and tobacco products. That means if you were the original purchaser, the ATF might have some questions as to why the gun is no longer in your possession. DO NOT DO THIS IN YOUR HOME. Just having those items is not probable cause for anything. There are plenty of reasons that might happen. The Sentry Strap keeps your sling out of the way until it is needed. Neither The High Road nor any of its directors, members, managers, employees, agents, vendors, or suppliers will be liable for any direct, indirect, general, bodily injury, compensatory, special, punitive, consequential, or incidental damages including, without limitation, lost profits or revenues, costs of replacement goods, loss or damage to data arising out of the use or inability to use this forum or any services associated with this forum, or damages from the use of or reliance on the information present on this forum, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damages. This means that every single item in your store must have an open acquisition log. you can't send it to get it worked on. *we all know I'm exaggerating; there are no jackbooted thugs in the ATF - just dog-shooting, regular ones. So what to do if they come back with a warrant for a raid? Just know, an audit isn’t something to be afraid of. AND, it's a foretaste of what is to come with guns, in general. Regardless of what you think, that is how the ATF defines them so they are regulated as such. Nothing against the agents personally, they just happen to enforce pointless laws. Call the police or sheriffs dept. ATF receives numerous telephone and electronic inquiries on a daily basis. firearms acquisition and disposition record book, powered by proof factor - increase conversions with social proof notifications. Regardless of what you think, that is how the ATF defines them so they are regulated as such. ATF receives numerous telephone and electronic inquiries on a daily basis. Getting audited may not negatively affect your business the first time your cited. It might also give a jackbooted ATF thug* "proof" that you are "engaged in business," since you are keeping records of your many profitable, transactions. Evidently, the ATF now answers to a different master. The list of "can'ts" is long. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Koresh, who possessed an exhaustive knowledge of the Bible, rapidly rose in the hierarchy of the small religious community, eventually entering into a power struggle with the Davidians leader, George Roden. Under the 1968 Gun Control Act, FFLs are required … When they go to the judge to detail the probable cause for getting the warrant, they must specify whether the warrant is to be a “knock and announce” warrant or a “no knock” warrant. IMHO that question assumes a presumption of guilt and I wonder what Kassar would say about that. I was very surprised to see this and honestly had no idea why they would have come to my house since it had almost been a month since my last purchase and it was not a multiple rifle purchase. If you see a uniformed officer in your back yard covering your back door, it’s probably a police raid. I thought the dude answered well how ever it is none of the ATF's frackin' business why someone decides to sell a firearm. No. In an effort to be consistent and to provide individuals with the most up-to-date information, ATF has compiled a list of the most frequently asked questions and provided answers to those questions (Q&As). He is a well respected, hard working Texan/American: BRIAN, JUST HAD 2 ATF OFFICERS LEAVE MY HOUSE WANTING TO SEARCH MY GUN SAFE AND TAKE DOWN SERIAL NUMBERS DUE TO THE FACT I HAVE PURCHASED A LOT OF GUNS LATELY. If you have a home based FFL, the ATF can come and inspect the premises of your FFL just like they can with any other gun shop or manufacturer, but they schedule with you ahead of time. We show you how you can better prepare and make it through. O. one-eyed Jack Manufacturer. That’s a bunch of hogwash. This is 100% bullshit and does not happen. Even if your books are fully compliant you may still feel a little anxious due to the power the ATF can have regarding the future of your business. ATF agents were on scene again Friday trying to help figure out what started the fire at Pulaski Church of God late Tuesday night. 5. One day, I open up my front door and I find an ATF card from a special agent. But repeat offenses can lead to violations or administrative action against your license (warning letters, warning conferences, denied renewals or revocations). But they do NOT simply walk up to your door to give you the option of ignoring them. The list goes on and on. If the police came to your door and asked you if you'd seen a murderer walk by, you wouldn't say "I'll tell you on the witness stand". Unfortunately, we didn’t have to wait. Your 4473s must be filled out completely and properly and match the information that’s recorded in your bound books. It can always help to have a second set of eyes look at your books before you forget about them. This often comes up because of the mistaken belief that a “Class 3″ license is required to purchase a suppressor. David Koresh was born Vernon Wayne Howell in Houston, Texas, in 1959. If someone has an ax to grind, they can gin up stuff for their cause. Jan 20, 2011 #1. This has happened time and time again. Plus, I'm still sore from the whole 'agency policy for lying under oath'. The Sentry Strap keeps your sling out of the way until it is needed. Recently an odd family moved in next door to us. If you haven’t been audited yet, then make sure your books and records are completely compliant and you have processes in place to always double check your records. It's not signing your rights away so stop acting like it. I thought the dude answered well how ever it is none of the ATF's frackin' business why someone decides to sell a firearm. Your 3310s are recorded when you’ve sold multiple handguns to a single individual. Many of ATF's activities are carried out in conjunction with task forces made up of state and local law enforcement off… Firefighters were even out Friday putting out hot spots. Your inventory will be checked against your bound books to ensure that they match up. I was very surprised to see this and honestly had no idea why they would have come to my house since it had almost been a month since my last purchase and it was not a multiple rifle purchase. (Will the ATF start showing up to search my house?) And by the way, ATF, alcohol, tobacco and firearms, well, the ATF has been doing a lot of the “A” and the “T,” but not much of the “F.” And we need to fix that. The wonderful thing about consent is that YOU CONTROL IT. 'Legal ' started by Extremely Pro gun, Sep 29, 2009 'm still sore from the whole policy..., FDA, CPSC ) signing your rights away so stop acting like it to any. 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